Minutes for the March 2 Community Meeting at the Hall

6:07pm AF started the meeting with a check-in for the Fire Dept attendees; they will leave at 6:45pm

Agenda:
1. Preamble and current status

2. Potential interim systems

3. PRRD direction and issues, and How to convince regional board to grant us input to decision process

LJ is doing speaker's list; 2 minutes per person.

1.

First, our community needs to respect all perspectives on this issue and embrace a process to resolve this in a way that strengthens, not weakens, our community

• Second, we need to identify a credible interim system, that is at least as good as the Telus pagers, and that can be implemented before the end of the month.
• Third, we need to convince the regional district to accept this interim system in order to provide the consultation opportunity that has been lacking. 
• Current status
• Although the board did not consider rescinding 3^rd readings of the bylaws, they did defer adopting the final bylaws until the board meeting March 26. Due to budget timing for the regional district, they have a need to finalize financial decisions before the preceding Committee of the Whole, which I assume is March 25. Due to the ending of the Telus pagers, any alternative interim system would have to be in place within a couple weeks.

  2. Interim System

  KD: I got a Rogers Pager; got it in a week.  Last night Wayne and I tested it every 2 minutes from Squitty to Weldon; listed out the dead spots (on one hand); $11/month for another $11/month, email can be sent to them.  Get a box in a week.  A system that could be put in place in a week.  It works.

  CD: Does Rogers plan on keeping this system in place for a while?

  KD: Yes, CBC ran a story suggesting Rogers and Bell would stop, but they told me they have no plans; all rural FDs use Rogers.

  RC (Fire Chief):I'll talk about the interim system.  Glad to hear that.  All my testing was limited and not positive.  Ross and I have a framework.

  Radioworks is similar to Telus.  $2500 buy in for equipment plus $10/month

  KD: with Rogers, you can buy for $85 and pay $10/mth or rent for $11/mth

  RC: Don't have criteria here.

  AF: Before you go, people doing testing need to have access to criteria and share it.

  DH: what does the criteria cover?

  RC: We are going to keep our current two numbers.  So we can measure things the same so we can gauge different systems.

  BK: is there some other part that is needed?

  RC: everything we have in place for Telus will work for these two systems.

  The difference between how 911 works is: dial 911, route to eComm, then sent to NI911 for Fire; BC ambulance in Victoria for med/tied in with NI911; police goes to Courtenay.

  We will get the info to our dispatch.  With the tower on Texada we get whole island coverage for 5W of radio.

  Currently, we get a page, our dispatch calls into BC Ambulance for details.  Then dispatcher calls out to people to go to call.  Then we use either telephone or radios to communicate on island.

  Timing?
  For 911, they are mandated from the time they get the call to when we are on our way, 2 minutes.

  Craig, how long would you say for the other system?

  Craig: it varies.  we get dispatched in less than 5 minutes.  When my pager goes off with page from BC Ambulance, within 2-3 minutes each member waits for call from dispatch.  5 minutes is a realistic timeframe for all members to be dispatched.

  1 question I have w/r/to 911: 3 questions are given.  Then it goes to Victoria but does it go to Parksville?

  RC: no, it goes to Victoria.

  Craig: what I'm getting at is that there are too many cogs in the wheel.  Current system is local people; they know Coast Guard,etc.  My concern is that if we have to change what we have in place.

  Vic: not clear; most calls for ambulance?  Will there be an on-island dispatch?  Victoria always had someone on who knew Lasqueti.  Trying to get clear on differences.

  RC: Talk to same people in Victoria.  BC Ambulance will send info to NI911.  The on-island dispatch will still call out.

  The different options; both similar and easy to implement.  If you have another option, email me.

  DH: do we buy the radios for 911 and do we get other things temporarily.

  RC: if we start using 911 before the tower on Texada, then we need to use Radios.  All FD members get one.  Have to buy: $5-600 per.  Lower end is $100 but discouraged. Comes out of operational FD budget.

  DH: another expense not told about on Feb 13.

  RC: not throw away radios; still useful for on-island communication.  Battery life limited; have to recharge every few days (instead of pager once per month).  After the tower, then pagers are $300 and batteries last a number of weeks.

  Vic: this thing has been thrown at us; another $40,000 thrown at us.  So badly thought out.  Find cheapest option to keep going and think this through.  Being pushed too fast.

  AF: Let's not get too detailed about 911 issues.  Focus on interim option now.

  SW: I understand that money for FD and 1R comes from PRRD.  Will PRRD budget for us to do interim option if we don't go with 911.

  RC: Telus comes out of FD budget; others are comparable.

  SW: What's a budget year?

  MA: by the end of April

  MA: if we don't go with 911, they don't want anything to do with us

  MW: curious about cost of Rogers compared to Telus now?  Is it comparable?

  RC: Yes.

  JP: what happen to Minister Oakes mandate that we have input?
  Karl's pager with dead spots?  Is there one better or do they all have dead spots?

  RC: the dead spot with Radioworks is at Lennie and part way up Forbes Rd.

  JP: so technology is about the same

  RC: using 911, supposed to be better; using the tower right there, supposted to get into the crevices.  The simulation shows better.

  JP: so we don't know.

  RC: yes, we don't.

  RK: use Google maps.

  DH: 911 showed that our many crevices were in parallel but West side not covered

  SK: do you have a preference between Rogers and 911.

  RC: I would like to see 911; upgrade in service.  When I was asked to give my recommendation.  Brings us up to standards.  Is there a problem with not getting up to standards?  Yes, liability.  They want us to meet standards.  I would like to meet standards that are feasible.

  Also have tower on Little Mtn.  So it would cover West side; Radioworks uses Little Mtn.

  NW: one thing about 911 that I like as 1R, we can talk to each other.  With paging, if there's a dead spot, we can radio each other.  When pagers have dead spots, radios don't.  Don't know why.  Has potential to speed up our problem solving.

  DH: I forgot to add that that was the best that 911 could find...tower on Texada?  That gets us to this standard?  what about the other standards?  How much would that cost?  Is there not a system we could create that doesn't involve 911.  Also, there's a possibility that the Fire Truck and EMU are left behind.

  RC: that last issue is a dispatch.  Radio discipline is a common problem.  Need to learn how to speak; acknowledge dispatch.

  US: for clarification, how many pagers do we have in circulation right now?

  RC: difficult after all the years with Telus.

  US: how many in FD now?

  RC: 35 and ramping up.  Some have but don't go to practise.

  US: wouldn't need that if everyone showed up.  Teams could trade.  Only teams of 4 for 1R.  About 12 on list for FD.

  RC: Everyone needs to have one.  Need to get in touch with everyone.  Handing out gets convoluted.

  DG: to Merrick, we're your family, friends, and neighbours, we weren't consulted.  It's scary.  We need to memorize new addresses (laughter).  We need time to look at our options.  We deserve it, not only by law but by decency.  We need a year.

  I don't think it needs to be cheapest for interim, I think it needs to be best.  We can have radios even if not part of 911.

  RC: I've already ordered expensive radios.

  DG: Take some time to get used to this idea.  Point is there is still a local dispatch

  MA: how many FD standards RD trying to impose?  Just this one (911).  When Lasqueti had it's consciousness raised in 70's, warned that building codes would follow.  Still not.

  Ryan says in 2005 LIFD will work to harmonize with 911.

  That's what's driving their fear of liability.

  I presented the petition; the Board is liable.  I said LI is not litigious.  Gave example.  They all laughed.  When it came to more time, they said in two weeks.  They are sorry.

  I am trying my hardest to get the message to PRRD that they are not liable.  It would be no skin off their nose to shelve it for a year.  I am only 1 vote.

  JP: Also question about Oakes?  That process?  2nd agenda item.

  WC: question, if we step out of PRRD, how much do we have?

  The problem with radios, both on here and Texada, is problematic.

  MA: FD has a contingency fund: $62,160; I think its ours.

  WB: I was looking at paper they sent us.

  For Karl's pagers: $22 per taxpayer /year; $44 per year for alphanumeric pagers.

  For housenumbering:  $37 per taxpayer /year; not including $40,000 for radios and not including $70,000 tower.

  I thought for items over $100,000 there had to be a referendum

  GF: What is this standard we are being moved up to?

  MA: new standard, when I was Fire Chief, the standards kept going urban.  The FCABC has been lobbying for 20 years and now there is a new standard that our FD can be classified as an external fire only dept.

  If they do it, it fulfills Ryan's 4 requirements.

  911 shows due diligence.

  GF: some parts of PRRD don't have 911

  MA: that's not my understanding.

  S: spoke of due diligence; very important.  Do you believe that we can try something ourselves and still meet that?  if not, why not.

  RT: when I spoke with Al Radke, what is going to mitigate the liability?  He said documentation.  There's a record showing when the call came in and when the dispatch went out, etc.  I said we can do that.  He didn't give a response.

  S: do they feel we are incompetent?

  MA: no, they want to be covered.

  S: can we do this ourselves?

  MA: if we don't accept 911, we are out of PRRD.

  S: my way or the highway.

  MA: just the Fire Dept.  I do not think there is anything stopping 1Rs to acting independently, but could not use FD equipment.

  CE: could we make something ourselves?  Could we build our own tower?  How much do we get vs. tax money going to PRRD?

  MA: you send your tax cheque; 8% goes to PRRD.  The reason they are so concerned about their budget is that they can not run a deficit.

  CE: someone could sue them into a deficit.

  MA: they have done due diligence.  Since 2005 there has been a bylaw in place; now its 2015

  DR: I understand value of 911; expensive; some have a problem with it.  My problem is the process that PRRD has imposed on us.  Not given us consultation, uncomfortable in trusting what they do.  They are on edge of dictating, blackmailing us, inappropriate.  Majority solved if they said, yes, we didn't give you the time.  I feel affronted.

  SJ: couple of questions:  I'll wait.

  LJ:

  RA: who here is in FD?  5?  1Rs?  in total, 35.  A minority. 

  MA: I think the majority of FD is looking forward to 911.  Hugs for standing up for it.

  RA: they need more.  I don't think anyone would disagree.  When taxes come up, people go whoa.  They don't go away.  The issue is control.  The $ MA talks about.

  PJ: The main problem is that the bylaw needs to be changed.  They feel exposed.  We need to convince them they don't have our support.  Community wants a year.  Don't like the way it's been imposed on us.  How far will it go?  How do we convince PRRD that they don't want to do this.

  MA: PRRD Chair and Ryan want to come.

  AF: ?  what happen to Ministry's criteria that community be consulted.
  1,2,3 readings given.  The bylaws go to Ministry to be checked.  Come back to RD; had it on their agenda last meeting, deferred to next meeting.  2 ways to approve tax increases.  Vote or RD on our behalf.  Public consultation that can influence decision technically has not happened.

  MA: I would say the more lobbying, the better.  I've tried.  I'll keep trying.  They've been trying so hard, doesn't that count as due diligence.  We could be sued as individuals.  I'm not a lawyer.

  JP: there's been no process.

  AF: RD has chosen not to do consultation in a meaningful way.

  JP: should there be some emphasize that we have not been heard?

  AF: yes, information meeting after 3rd reading.  Can not be changed, only adopted or not adopted.  I don't know how many have written?  Hands up.  (many)

  Generally RD are delegations of the province; let them do what they will.  She said they want consultation.

  MA: I want to say a word about David Slik.  He's off island.  Agrees that in house would be too expensive.  I agreed that public engagement wasn't sufficient.  Distrust about house numbered.  We don't barge onto properties.

  DH: I phoned Mr. Radke at 4:30 today.  They have no date for meeting with us.  Any new proposals? he said no new proposals.

  SJ: 2 things: 1 is liability.  other is standards.  Merrick, there is talk that the standards will be changed to help rural depts?

  MA: they were published in Nov; they are the new rules.

  SJ: new standards, are they the same as the new rules.

  MA: 3 or 4 years ago.

  SJ: you don't know if the standards will be more liberal.

  MA: I do know; used to be 1 size fits all; not anymore. 

  SJ: assuming the standards are more liberal; we're asking for more time; maybe we won't need to meet different standards.  Not buying liability; why not worried about Telus?

  I dispute the fact that they are going to be liable.

  AK:

  RT: confidentiality clause.  Nobody would ask you for patient details on radio.  They won't hear you talking on radio.  When dispatch calls, everyone who hears the radio page, everyone will hear what dispatch says.

  GK: lack of consultation; is there a legal way to go after PRRD?  other than writing the minister

  AF: also an ombudsperson; if someone has a problem. can approach them.  Have to make a case.

  GK; other point: if it is over $100,000, there are no real numbers, new tax for new tower; vague.

  RT: we know that the FD expenses come out of their budget.  Tower does not.

  GK: is it true that if there is a tax increase over $100,000 requires referendum?

  AF: yes.  I'd have to look back.

  PJ: if they borrow.

  DO: 2 questions; why Friday the 13th when more people would be here in July, August, Sept?

  MA: I was called into Nancy's office.  When should we call the meeting?  Just before I&T deadline. Staff overworked; they dropped the ball.  Nancy burst into tears.

  DO: I recall at the beginning of the Feb 13th meeting that you said this meeting was to determine whether 911 would be accepted or not.

  MA: I don't recall saying that.  I hoped that the community would accept it.

  AF: now we've learned that Telus isn't acceptable anyway; news that there's a bylaw sitting there for 10 years.  Only alternatives is to petition the Board or contact the Minister.

  2nd agenda item.  Merrick will start off.

  MA: It's been made clear to me from Al Radke, that they either go with 911 or go it alone.  That's their bottom line.  They are unlikely to get a suit from Lasqueti.  The Board could live dangerously for another year.  When I asked to table it, I moved to table indefinitely.  Al advised to delay it for a month and that's where it's at.  The Board takes his advice; he's a professional.  Tom asked me if Al was going on his own advice or if it was a legal opinion.

  Al Radke (as read by MA): the Board exercises and approves all activities.  it is the governing body of the RD.  Board can only exercise its power by bylaw or resolution.  Unlike local government or municipality, RD has a distinct budget for each service.  Each year revenue must be collected to cover each service.  Each service can not be subsidized by another service.  "Pay for what you get"  By March 31st of each year.  Although it is my professional opinion, it is informed by reading these acts and regulations.

  MA: they were willing to admit that they didn't give us a heads up.

  KR: why can't they set it back for another year?  Why not.

  MA: because the system is flaky.

  KD: after 20 years, it is flaky?

  KK: I went into Island Communication this afternoon.  They are confident they could build a system for us for much less.  With radios and pagers.  Maybe it would only be a better price.  Two guys spent 30 min with me.  2 weeks is take it or leave it.  Definitely talk more about it.  Options with sites already in place.  Not clear if another repeater is needed.  Way cheaper than $70,000.  It would be our system, not NI911's.

  MA: Al did say that he would be perfectly content if we went on our own way.  Not if we carry on, too much liability.  We are 3% of PRRD population.  We act like we're the biggest dog.  Between 50-75% of taxes come from off-island.  We are part of BC.  All of PRRD included in 911.

  Many: dispute that everyone else included in 911.

  AF: given the info we have, how can we get the Board to.  We are not asking for the Fire Service.  If the RD wants to remove us from it, it can not happen at 1 meeting; the CAO can not decide.

  1 question: first this was about Telus ending; now it about Telus not sufficient; now it's about 10 year bylaw outstanding.  Do you believe that the RD and CAO would accept an interim system like Rogers and a process with a timeline?

  MA: I've been getting a lot of resistance.

  AF: would another blockage come up?

  DH: where do I find an apology from the Board?

  MA: the Board was ignorant; the staff apologized.

  DH: there are 3 Board meetings: March 12, March 19 (CotW); if we want to make a statement that would be the time.  if we're serious about this, let's go then.

  DH:  Why is CAO ignoring the rules and regulations?

  MA: I don't know.

  Dave Wilcox: it's about the dispatch.  PR is asking us that if we get an emerg call, that we have a clear, consistent and effective comm. system.  It's gotta be clear.

  MA: upgrade the communications.  To conform to some of the standards so they are doing due diligence.

  DH: there is one standard.

  DW: clear communication.

  TP: Can we get a delegation status for that meeting?  Can you organize?

  MA: just call and say you want to speak, at beginning of meeting

  TP: can you supply us with info about the ramifications for the scenario of the PRRD imposed 911 and we're outraged.  Can you do that?

  MA: yes, meetings on Thursdays at 3pm.

  KD: there are many ways to document; doesn't have to be 911.  Lack of communication from Board; also house numbering.  That leads to driveways being too narrow, etc.  We can come up with a system that documents everything.

  MA: you have a couple of weeks.  Here's an option that will do it for a year.  2x4 rumour.  Basically be nice to board...

  MW: 2 points: doesn't work to go our own way.  Even if I do give my tax money, not everyone will.

  Other thing: if they are really sorry, they will come to us before March 19

  MA: they are willing and waiting to hear how it goes tonight and when a good time for them to come is.

  MW: that's better than a delegation.

  AF: whole Board not coming here; staff and CAO only.

  Can we not teleconference with them here?

  MA: we don't have the technology

  SK: I agree with Marti; too much money.  Good idea to have more time.  I'm open to 911 if that's what FD will work best.  It's quaint to not have house numbers.  What would it take to change that bylaw.

  PJ: it's a PRRD bylaw.

  SK: what about something like all calls would be documented this year?  That's the tricky thing.  If they didn't accept us not being in 911.  I don't think we should get out of PRRD, too much work, can't expect 1Rs to do more work.

  AF: clarification; RD passed this bylaw in 2005?

  MA: on website under bylaw.

  RA: I see a sugar coating; ask for permission or for forgiveness.  Not going to happen.  The real answer is very short time, but really there is no time to do this.  We don't have a real option.  It's been purposely done.  The only 2 people that know how to change this, are not willing to do this.

  RT: not true; FD members have told me that they like 911 but would go with the communities decision.

  RA: only 2 people.

  RT: who are they?

  RA: MA do you agree?

  MA: I think 911 is best.

  PJ: yes, but I don't

  NW: when staff and CAO come, we need to come up with a plan, a working group to come up with that.  I think we could organize that tonight.  Working group needs the time, energy and commitment to seek out info for the staff member.  So the WG can develop a document that shows cost, why, how.  So far, Rogers most straightforward for next year.  Additional thing is to follow up with everyone writing letters to Minister.  I'm asking for people to put it together.

  WB: why doesn't Rogers become long-term solution?  Two weeks ago $62,000; now down to $22,000 for new radios.

  MA: 62,000 is a reserve.  40,000 came from FD account.

  WB: I'll buy underwear for Board to cover their butts.

  S: if I was getting hammered about liability; I would get legal advice.

  Also like AF's statement that they just can't kick us out.  I agree it would be difficult to operate on our own.

  CC: local MLA; call them to put pressure on Minister.

  Gov't doesn't like negative media attention; any creative ideas?

  MA: call PR Peak.

  SW: sure PR, but CBC has a programme.  Know someone who got MSP to pay after calling this programme.  Suggestion similar to Noel.  We pay taxes, taxes should cover it.  It won't surprise me at all if we go with 911.  All 1Rs think we should go with it.  I think that the committee that gets formed should call CBC if we don't get clear answers right away.

  S: a press release

  MA: I'm going to suggest that the staff, CAO and Ryan come on Tuesday.  They will fly in.

  DH: can we have a dual chair?

  MA: The CAO knows all the answers to all the questions.

  SJ: I'm wondering about liability; we have 2 weeks.  How can we give an answer in 2 weeks?  My question to the Board, if they are concerned about liability what about if we are kicked out.  They drop the ball, we have no service.  What is their answer?

  CE: can you MA, say this: what would make it easier for them to go with us having more time.  What do they want from us to give us more time?

  KK: Cost.  Island Communication does all the maintenance and is way less than now.  Before we say we can't afford it...

  Can we find out what system they are going to supply with NI911?

  MA: Richard knows that already.

  KK: my dad said it is old technology; doesn't take $70,000 to match it.

  Another thing: curious about how dispatch works.  They add a step.

  MA: Ryan told me that we are handing over dispatch to 911.  We pay for initial tower.

  KK: do we still have an on-island dispatch?

  MA: no longer long phone #s  Everyone knows 911

  DG: I like Noel's idea.  May I suggest that they also work toward the CotW meeting as well.  Give them a chance to save face.  We need time as well.

  MA: I'm getting a clear message.

  RA: I wanted to apologize for head hunting.  The time constraint is what makes me the most irrational.

  MA: I think it's accidental.

  DR: the variations and inaccuracies make me think it's intentional

  KD: about bringing us up to standards; small depts can't do it.  10 on duty; 10 in reserve.  We don't have manpower.  I haven't read new training.  All run by insurance underwriters.

  RT: specifically for FD and public safety.

  MA: have your read the new regs?

  RT: yes.  some stuff says you have to meet some 10 page standard.  Basically how to control FD on site to keep them and public safe.

  DO: no way to stop this; the PRRD Board takes direction form CAO.  CAO will not be swayed.  If nothing happens or if we come up with a new system in 2 weeks, the Board will vote according to the CAO.  As our representative, is there anything that you know of that can change this?

  MA: No. We will pay.

  SJ: who are "we"?

  MA: we are the taxpayers.  That's what I said, there are only a few.  They pay huge taxes on their summer home.

  DH: needs to be said that the Board has not apologized.

  AF: RD works for us; they apologized and haven't fixed the problem.  I think it's at the Board level.  Those people on a delegation, proceed like we can convince the Board.  I'm on the committee.  AK is the leader of the committee.

  End of Meeting.